Mac vs. PC

[refresh@spinball$>]

Well then Nerds, the discussions have happened on the trips, now to bring it to the forum for the ultimate showdown. Remember, no slating each other but no holds barred on ripping ideas to shreds!

I have to go on the obvious side and say the highly customisable, awesomely powerful PC!

Why?
OSX or a real BSD/Linux that is free, not stolen (I know bits are on the net but still, very few peeps know that)
I like 2 identical monitors. Do that with a cheap Mac (< £600)
Talk about price, seen the price difference for the same performance?
OSX vs. Compiz, I think we have an easy winner here.
Macs are ugly, my PC is beautiful.
Upgrades, not on a Mac < £1000.
Standard hardware, better make sure it works on a Mac.
iTunes and Safari on Windows, even Apple has no faith in Macs.
Games, yes I do play them!Your views please Nerds!

[redratpete]

What have you started refresh we will never hear the end of this now. The only thing that i will say is that the the new iMac looks Awesome... Take it away Mark and Rob. :P

[refresh@spinball$>]

I can hold my own against them anyday. Then all I need is coffee and I shall begin!

[Matt]

I sided for Mac for the following reasons:

Don't get viruse's.
Dont get slow once you have had it for a bit.
Smoother operation.
Better programs as standard.
Dont Crash or Blue Screen.
Look alot neater and compact than a PC would. But it would be better if you could upgrade bits easier and more software titles were compatible, but i can see this coming in the future.

[Mark]

Okay, reasons I voted Mac:
OSX, in my opinion, is simply the best and most advanced operating system on the planet. It's fast, elegant, reliable, innovative and very aesthetically pleasing!
Apple are the masters of innovation and I like to be at the cutting edge of technology, supporting such innovations.
The design of the machines are breathtaking, they're so simple and well thought out. The iMac, need I say more!
You can run all of your windows applications on a Mac, so compatibility is no longer an issue (and that includes games).
The ability to upgrade is improving, with the new iMacs having a single screw on the exterior to open up their RAM slots.
There are practically no viruses/spyware to worry about, nothing to clog up or slow down your Mac.
You'll never boot up a mac for the first time only to find it stuffed full of trial software, it's clean, it's elegant, it's fast!
Mac users love to create freeware! The software applications you can get for free on Macs, without any spyware or advertising, are stunning!That'll do for now :)

[refresh@spinball$>]

You'll never boot my PC up first time to all sorts of crap, simply enough any vendor worth anything won't do it to you. (Do you use all the crap that comes with a Mac, look in the Utilities dir. Thought not!)
Masters of innovation, nah multi-touch has been done before, they were accused (rightly) of copying Creative's ideas for ipod. If you call putting a computer into a hideous case innovative, I pity you, honestly.
You need to say more about the iMac, I want a computer not a little poxy web surfing device. We're nerds here, we like customisability.
Only by installing Windows can you run the software, be it in a real or a virtual machine. May as well get a real computer surely.
The ability to upgrade a Mac still ain't there. I can build my own PC!
With spyware/virii, Linux ain't stung by that lot either, so a moot point here.
Freeware, even my OS is freeware!
Elegant, maybe. Slow, definately, full of fluffy crap, 100%!
And you thought I was on about Windows :P Fool!

[Mark]

You'll never boot my PC up first time to all sorts of crap, simply enough any vendor worth anything won't do it to you.That's irrelevant. Take Dell for example, the worlds largest desktop computer retailer - they bundle lots of pre-installed junk onto your PC. In fact, a heck of a lot do. All the PCs I've brought (i.e. not built) have had unwanted pre-installed programs.

Masters of innovation, nah multi-touch has been done before.I'm not talking multi-touch. Apple have innovated right from when they formed the first real "Home Computer" in the form of the Apple II. It's all of the little things such as "events" and "skimming" in iPhoto, and "Stacks" in Leopard which make life so much easier. You just can't deny it, they innovate!

You need to say more about the iMac, I want a computer not a little poxy web surfing device.This is what I meant:

http://www.ridehost.com/uploads/macarg.jpg

Only by installing Windows can you run the software, be it in a real or a virtual machine. May as well get a real computer surely.Not in my opinion, because I think macs are better. The fact that I can run all of my windows stuff too, well that's just a bonus!

The ability to upgrade a Mac still ain't there. I can build my own PC!Not always a good thing. Apple can write OSX to make the absolute most out of its components for maximum stability and performance. Windows doesn't have a clue what it's going to be running off!

With spyware/virii, Linux ain't stung by that lot either, so a moot point here.Very true, but linux can be even less compatible with games and software than OSX is, which you used as an argument against OSX.

Freeware, even my OS is freeware!That totally wasn't the point!

Won't comment on the last bullet point as it seemed a bit unbalanced ;)

[lowndesy]

I'm sorry But I love macs, was on one in college today and have been on them before - I think they're great! When I'm doing photography work I think they're a lot better then PC's.

[Jacob_Towers]

This is what I meant:

http://www.ridehost.com/uploads/macarg.jpg



And if you have a wireless mice and keyboard it looks EVEN neater. :)

[Pigswillfly]

You can't beat a PC when it comes to gaming!! It's what you need in any home computer, an uber graphics card, which unfortunately apple still haven't realised. I want to game, not just run media programs!

Pigs

[Jacob_Towers]

yes, I agree that PC is better for gaming. But mac beats it in most other aspects. MACs are very simple to get around.

[redratpete]

To be honest on the gaming front if you want to play games you get a playstation 3. :P :D

[lowndesy]

so it's sorted mac for everyday use and a playstation 3 your sorted now if i could just find the money.

[redratpete]

Yeah looks like i am then. :P

[Aaron]

PC :P But you have to be careful with a topic title like this one, its puts Macs against PC's. Not Mac vs Windows, so effectively Microsoft isn't included upon this debate.

Although I have noticed a couple of posts about Macs being easier to get around, PC's are easy to get around, depending upon what OS you use.

Your Macs have boot camp and can run Windows etc, thus meaning you can actually run some apps, but you may have forgotten but PC's can run Mac OSX etc too. ;)

Btw Mark, the Apple II was ****ing ugly :lol:

Aaron 8-)

Edit----

Some Pics of Mac OSX running on my install of Vista. Alongside, a conversation with Mark, just to prove its me :P

http://www.aaron-smith.co.uk/images/macosx1.jpg
http://www.aaron-smith.co.uk/images/macosx2.jpg

Edit----

[Georgie]

PC - because i like them :)

[Robert Trollslayer]

To be honest on the gaming front if you want to play games you get a playstation 3. :P :D
Why if you wanted to play games would you buy a console with about 2 good games on it, and very few in the pipeline any time soon?

[redratpete]

Who says there are only 2 good games on it? Oh let me guess...... You. :P

[Robert Trollslayer]

No, pretty much the whole entire damn gaming community.

[redratpete]

Yeah whatever you say Rob. :P Im quite pleased with the games ive got and the future ones coming out plus im getting a Wii at Christmas too. :P

[Robert]

Playstation 3 vs. Wii vs. Xbox 360 - who cares? Not me, and besides, it's off topic.

Back on topic, however, are we talking about the hardware only? If so, these are my arguments for the Mac:

Aesthetics
No one can possibly argue that PCs look better than Macs - they simply don't, even if it is a matter of opinion; Mark's picture demonstrates that quite nicely, and I challenge anyone to show me a picture of a computer not designed by Apple which looks nicer. Although we're not talking about previous models, the Apple ][ was a very sexy computer compared to other computers of it's day.

Performance
People seem to think that Macs have low performance compared to other similarly priced PCs. This is only partially true - when you buy a Mac, you are also buying the Operation System (the same with a PC) and iLife with it at the same time, and some of the money also goes into the aesthetics of the hardware. Though, overall, this extra price is very small, and is really not worth considering. Other than the low cost Mac mini and MacBook, which are still very powerful but are lacking slightly on the graphics (Intel GMA), Macs are extremely powerful and capable machines. Putting cost aside for a second, the best hardware configuration for a Mac laptop (a MacBook Pro), is as follows:

A 17" screen with a resolution of 1920 x 1200.
An NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT with 256MB of SDRAM.
Up to 4GB of RAM.
Up to 250GB HD.
Slot loading disk drive burns DVD's and CD's, 3rd Party Blu-Ray burner available.
Built in camera / microphone.
Optical and analogue audio in and out.
802.11 bgn, Bluetooth 2.0, Infrared.
2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo.Not to mention the best hardware configuration of a Mac Pro...

2 x Quad Core 3.0 GHz Intel Xeon Processors.
Up to 16GB of RAM.
802.11 bgn, Bluetooth 2.0.
Officially, up to 3TB of storage (can go up to 4)
Optical and analogue audio in and out.
2 x Tray loading disk drive burns DVD's and CD's.
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 with 512MB SDRAM or ATI Radeon X1900 XT with 512MB SDRAM.I think you will agree that these are not bad specifications. Plus, I think it may be illegal to run Mac OS X on a PC, so I'm not sure if you would be allowed to count that as a valid point. While the above specs will come at a hefty price, I've generally found that specs of other PCs of a similar price are relatively the same.

I'll do a three-way, OS X biased, operating system comparison of Windows, OS X and Linux, after the break...

Robert

[Robert Trollslayer]

http://www.itreviews.co.uk/graphics/normal/hardware/h971.jpgA manly computer if there ever was one. That's my candidate for 'better looking than a Mac', the imperious Alienware.

[Robert]

I just noticed you badmouthed the Utilities directory! That is one of the most useful set of applications on the Mac!!!

Activity Manager - Task Manager for Mac, basically...
AirPort Admin Utility - For my Airport Express
Bluetooth File Exchange - For Bluetooth file transfers, etc.
Disk Utility - I have never seen a better disk manager for any OS, it can burn, partition, repair, format, RAID, etc.
Grapher - Very useful for graphing graphs; it's way better than the likes of Autograph or Omnigraph they have on the PCs at school; plus, the most useful feature; formulae are correctly formatted, and you can even copy as a tiff, pdf or as a LaTeX expression!
Installer - To open most mac installation files.
Keychain Access - To view the passwords the technicians install on your machine for WIFI and think are secret...he he he
Network Utility - The most useful program for network stuff, such as:
• Pinging
• Lookups
• Traceroutes
• Whois'
• Port scanning
...and finally, you of all people should know the usefulness of the Terminal!!!

@Trollslayer - I guess it falls under user preference - I prefer minimalism myself...

Robert

[Robert Trollslayer]

Oh I love the minimalism, I just would prefer to look at my ridiculously expensive computer and say "wow my ***** is huge!" rather than the "Oh I love the curvy lines, they bring out another alternative side to my actually rather normal personality."

[Morgan]

Well I'm starting to side with the Macs now, although I don't and never have owned one, I'm seriously looking into buying an iMac for my next system. For what I use my computer for, a Mac seems perfect. To be honest the huge jungle of wires I have growing under my desk is a tad rediculous, so I think a trade for the stunning iMac, with minimal mess is on the cards. :D

[Aaron]

Well I'm starting to side with the Macs now, although I don't and never have owned one, I'm seriously looking into buying an iMac for my next system. For what I use my computer for, a Mac seems perfect. To be honest the huge jungle of wires I have growing under my desk is a tad rediculous, so I think a trade for the stunning iMac, with minimal mess is on the cards. :D

Good Luck To You!

Aaron 8-)

I sided for Mac for the following reasons:

Don't get viruse's.
Dont get slow once you have had it for a bit.
Smoother operation.
Better programs as standard.
Dont Crash or Blue Screen.
Look alot neater and compact than a PC would.But it would be better if you could upgrade bits easier and more software titles were compatible, but i can see this coming in the future.

Few untruths there mate.

Macs dont get viruses... they do but very rarely, being that not as many people use Macs as they do PC's. Look at it from a hackers POV, why create a virus that will affect a small amount of people, when you could create the same virus but for a massive amount of people.

Macs do tire with use, our college can prove that. We have 20" iMacs and some old eMacs too. The eMacs are practically dead now and unusable for the purpose they were built. On the other hand they're getting replaced in half term with the new range of iMacs.

Macs don't crash? :lol: Blue screen is exclusive to windows so that ain't going to happen. Primarily the Blue screen is not as common these days with Vista or XP, at least it isn't with me. Ever heard of the spinning pizza wheel of death? The Mac equivalent.
http://homepage.mac.com/henrik/.Pictures/filejuicer/pizzawheel.jpg

End of essay.

Aaron 8-)

[Mark]

Macs dont get viruses... they do but very rarely, being that not as many people use Macs as they do PC's.
That is indeed the reason, but it doesn't stop it being a plus point for the mac!

Macs do tire with use, our college can prove that. We have 20" iMacs and some old eMacs too.
No doubt in such an environment they're subject to constant use and probably abuse, downloading loads of pointless junk off the net. I bet they'd run faster after an "Archive and Install" of the OS, another very useful feature.

Macs do crash of course, as does virtually every electronic device. In fact, the new iMacs are reported to be very bad for this, with some early graphics driver issues causing the machines to freeze. This issue has not yet been fixed via an update. However, I feel (and people can disagree as much as they like), that macs are more stable. Even when applications crash it is rarely causes the whole OS to panic. Random re-starts and an ever crashing explorer are all too common for me with Windows.

[Robert]

Actually, the Spinning Beach Ball of Death is not Mac crashing, it's an application stuck in a loop; applications can easily be terminated by simply right clicking on the application's icon in the dock, and selecting "Force Quit", which will end the program immediately. How easy is it to end a program in Windows? When ever a program gets stuck, you can normally summon the none-responsive dialogue by cliking on it a few times. When this comes up and allows you to select "End Program" or whatever it is, it rarely closes the program immediately; the only way I know of to end a program immediately in Windows is to summon the task manager (which will already take a while since the system is low on resources already with a stuck program), and then go into processes, find the correct process, and then "End Task". Or you could do it from the command prompt.

Now the equivalent to a blue screen on a mac is a kernel panic, and this is almost always related to hardware issues and not software. In fact, I see it so infrequently that a have a screen saver which mimics the effect to remind me what it's like...he he; it looks like this:
http://blog.serendipity-software.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/images/kernel-crash.jpg

Robert

[@lun]

In fact, I see it so infrequently that a have a screen saver which mimics the effect to remind me what it's like...he he; it looks like this:
http://blog.serendipity-software.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/images/kernel-crash.jpg

Can't get more geekier than that :P

Personally I have the PC port of flurry as mine. And while we're talking about it, I have only ever seen a BSOD once on my WinXP PC, which I caused myself, though on my old WinME PC it was a weekly occurence, but that release was a giant flop anyway.

The one thing that would stop me owning a Mac, would be the fanboy cult that comes with it, and I don't mean like in this topic, I mean when somebody sniggers when they see that you are not using a Mac and demand to know why you believe your PC is better and challenge every point you make (ok maybe a bit like this topic), yes Macs are sleek and stylish, but you can buy a PC in pretty much any shape or size, and a lot of them look even better than an iMac, and are cheaper, yes alot of the time it costs about the same for a PC with the same spec. but my Nan wants a PC for email, the internet and maybe for writing letters, I don't think she's planning on breaking into the video encoding or graphic design industry anytime soon, so a £300 Dell will suffice, she does not need a £1000 iMac and a Mac mini wouldn't be worth it since she would need to buy a screen, keyboard and mouse to go with it.

They can all do relatively the same thing and though I wouldn't mind owning a Mac, I wouldn't be throwing out my PC if I did, especially since Steam is PC only (I have bought alot off it), and running it on a Mac using Bootcamp is slow as hell.

P.S. the Mighty Mouse's right click is terrible.

[Robert]

...and running it on a Mac using Bootcamp is slow as hell.
Actually, running programs using Boot Camp should run at the same speed as any other PC with equivalent specs, since Windows would be running natively on the hardware (as opposed to Virtual PC where an x86 compatible processor is emulated or Parallels or VMware where Windows would be running alongside Mac, therefore slowing it down a little).

I can see your point of getting a standard PC where only money is the issue, I guess in that case low cost PCs are the best choice.

As for the "fanboy" issue, technically that's true I guess, but I also see just as many PC users target Mac users with issues (normally) about compatibility.

As for Steam, well, I guess you'd have to give it up or use it over Boot Camp if you switched; I've never heard of a Mac equivalent - there might be one...

I've never really used the Mighty Mouse myself since I've never had one, I've only used it in computer stores. On a Mac it doesn't really matter if the right-click doesn't work properly, you don't need to right click that often anyway! But it does have sideways scrolling to make up for this issue if it is an issue anyway...

Robert

[@lun]

As for Steam, well, I guess you'd have to give it up or use it over Boot Camp if you switched; I've never heard of a Mac equivalent - there might be one...

Steam is sort of like the iTunes for games and it's integrated into all the games you purchase of it (like xbox live, with achievements, builtin IM, etc.) and there isn't a Mac equivalent since they would need to port all their games over to Mac, which isn't likely to happen any time soon, just look at all the topics in their forums and you'll see why.

And no I'm not giving it up, not even for a 360 :P

As for the fanboy issue, yeah, it is from both sides, and I suppose I am slightly biased towards PC (they're just more flexible in my opinion), but in truth, most of the arguments used are pretty much out of date, the BSOD, I've not seen in years, the marble of doom (or spinning pizza wheel of death, whatever) I do see at least twice a day when I'm in college, but only when I'm using the eMac's (4 or 5 years old) and your right about the force quit, but I can only use it if I have an application that hasn't frozen (including Finder) as not even the shortcut for it will work.

Actually, running programs using Boot Camp should run at the same speed as any other PC

Sorry I think I meant to say Parrallels or VMware, whichever requires to be run alongside Mac OS X. Technically though you have just turned your Mac into a PC, since apart from the casing, the main difference between a Mac and a PC is Mac OS X, pretty much all of the hardware is the same.

[Brad]

Mac OS X all the way. Closely followed by Linux (Ubuntu, specifically). Windows just doesn't even come into the equation. Vista is laughable.

[Aaron]

You could give us reasons as to why you have a preference of Mac OSX.

Aaron 8-)

[Brad]

Okay.

1) It's cheaper, software OS wise, than Windows.
2) It's a simple GUI.
3) It's got a UNIX backbone, so it's not only more secure but has features which Windows doesn't.
4) It's graphic and image editing capabilities are unrivaled.
5) It's more stable, has better benchmarks and less resource intensive.

No. 5 is easy to prove. I currently have XP sp2 dual booted on my Mac. While I'm using Mac, it's 3 fans (Hard drive, optical drive, cpu - hd fan runs at 1300rpm) simply can't be heard. It's literally silent, no matter which application I run or no matter how resource intensive something is. In contrast, in XP, as soon as it's on - I feel my computer is about to take off.

6) It's resistant to viruses and security threats.
7) Its design; elegance and innovation.
8) You can dual boot XP or Vista at no sacrifice to your Mac except losing some HD space to the damned OS.

I could go on.

Also, Vista is laughable because it's the biggest Mac rip-off I've ever seen. Features which have been standard in Mac since almost the beginning have taken Microsoft years and years to copy. I don't just say that because I'm an avid Apple/Mac fan, it's fact. In fact, don't take my word for it, watch this: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=w-_xAKSWkdE. I hope you detect the blatant sarcasm. :)

Also, I know exactly what a few of you have said about non responsive programs. Windows struggles to close them down, which has always confused me. Yet when a program in Mac is stuck in a loop, you just right click and hit Force Quit and away it goes. It doesn't stop and say "We couldn't end the program" or makes you press "End Now" for eternity with no results.

PS. I have an iMac. Mark, if you haven't used one properly, you're in for the best surprise of your computing life. xD

[Robert Trollslayer]

I'd hardly call Vista a mac-ripoff. It makes all the logical steps forward. And Macs are nowhere near as innovative as you think. They had to take out the genuinely innovative stuff from when it was still Longhorn so as not to confuse the public. Microsoft can't afford to alienate their fanbase as it is so large, whereas Apple have a very dedicated and individual set of fans. They cater for completely different needs.

[Brad]

Why wouldn't you call it a Mac rip off when it clearly is? Microsoft had the technology to implement instant search, for example, with Windows XP. Why didn't they do it? It's because there's nothing in Redmond but a giant photocopier.

[@lun]

Dude chill, no need to start a hate campaign, and besides, Microsoft didn't need to implement instant search since Google did it for them, and lets be honest, no one knows more about search engines than they do (dw they have also created a Mac version).

Also I haven't recently had to kill any processes on Windows, apart from Safari, which doesn't like having too many tabs open with flash content embeded in them. So for me personally, the end program dialog is not a problem, and opening task manager only takes two clicks.

It's graphic and image editing capabilities are unrivaled.
Umm.. pretty much the same graphic and image editing programs are available for PC, and if the Mac's graphics capabilities are better, why are pretty much all modern games made for the PC? Any made for Mac are usually just ports of the PC version.

So can't you just live and let live? No need to get hostile. My only real annoyance with Apple is with it's fan culture (Apple Fanboys) who won't stop forcing a corporate brand down peoples throat, they seem to forget it's just a machine.

[Brad]

Um, hostile? That wasn't a hostile post mate :lol:

I said graphic and image editing, which has nothing to do. Find me a good design business, maybe a company that makes magazines or something, who doesn't at least partially use Macs for production. Also, Google played no part in instant search. By instant search I mean Spotlight, in the corner, which finds stuff as you type it. Google is irrelevant.

I use Safari, I've had countless tabs open - never any problems.

Also, about the game thingy. The fact games aren't on Mac has absolutely nothing to do with its architecture. There are more PC games because the vast majority of home computer users use PC. Therefore, it makes logical sense for the game developers and publishers to cater for the masses.

Games are on their way though, EA have signed a deal (I don't remember the details) so we'll be seeing some more games.

Sorry if you think I came/come off as hostile, but this is a debate topic, I'm just putting my side of the argument in...

And yeah, I hate M$ Fanboys who never look at the facts but instead use the same argument over and over and never back up what they're saying.

PS. I'm an avid Steam user too :D In fact, I feel Valve make the best games ever. HL2 has been and always will be my favourite game of all time. I have XP on my Mac using Bootcamp, runs excellently. So I have the awesomeness of Mac, and the great games available to Windows.

[@lun]

Um, hostile? That wasn't a hostile post mate :lol:

Ah sorry mate, re-read your posts, I think I was the hostile one in all fairness (too much sugar for me) :amused: though the old eMac's in college are getting to me, they constantly crash, and hang, even after a format.

Now I have a serious question about Macs, where is the hash key? I can't find it anywhere :P

[Robert]

It's true that both OS's have the same image editing programs (though Macs do have Final Cut Studio), however Mac's do have a lot more power at image manipulation than on Windows; Core Image lets you manipulate large images in realtime (for example, applying them to a QT movie), or interest effects for screen savers (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dPYWXGaMvjE)...can your PC do that?
...and if the Mac's graphics capabilities are better, why are pretty much all modern games made for the PC?
Because Windows is more popular and companies do not want to waste resources on compiling their games for Mac as well when not many people will buy them, though that's changing (EA).

I think these videos are a more amusing example of why Microsoft copied the Mac:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=n74mktpenx8
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vBz_yf7N6dU
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vo9kaKePqMM

Robert

[Jacob_Towers]

Now I have a serious question about Macs, where is the hash key? I can't find it anywhere :P

I had this problem try ALT+3 that should hive you a #

[Robert Trollslayer]

Why wouldn't you call it a Mac rip off when it clearly is? Microsoft had the technology to implement instant search, for example, with Windows XP. Why didn't they do it? It's because there's nothing in Redmond but a giant photocopier.I read that they were implementing it with longhorn, but OSX came out first.

[Aaron]

or interest effects for screen savers (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dPYWXGaMvjE)...can your PC do that?


That is a so useless point. Just read that one sentence.

Question:When does a screensaver appear?
Answer:When your Mac/PC is inactive for a certain amount of time.

Theory:My PC usually goes inactive due to the fact I'm not there!! Why have a fancy screen saver that does loads of stuff and gets you all excited, when you only ever going to see it when your not around, and even then you cant see it. :P

At the end of the day, screen savers are just completly useless.

With regards to Vista being a clone of Mac OSX, i expect your going to say the same with regards to Leopard and Windows Vienna? If we see a feature in Leopard that is in Vista, can we have a tantrum and call Leopard a clone? The answer is yes, but why would we want to? Face it, Windows needs Mac OSX and vise versa, they make it each other better by giving competition, and thats how we advance to new innovative features.

There are competitive battles everywhere, with Sky and Virgin Media, BBC and ITV,Tesco and Asda, McDonalds and Burger King.

Aaron8-)

[Brad]

Shame Microsoft don't define the word "innovative" like the rest of us do. :P

[Adz]

Theory:My PC usually goes inactive due to the fact I'm not there!! Why have a fancy screen saver that does loads of stuff and gets you all excited, when you only ever going to see it when your not around, and even then you cant see it. :P

Lmao, I have to agree with that :lol:


I still think PC's are way better than mac's, and I still also think windows media center is better than Vista, and always will!



Adz :amused:

[@lun]

Well it appears Apple may have a sense of humour (sensitive Windows users should not click): http://www.rose-hulman.edu/~perekdr/leopard_windows_easter_egg.jpg

It was in the BETA releases, but it is actually included in the final build of Leopard, though I haven't seen any PCs in the last few years in beige, and that BSOD is years out of date :P

[Mark]

I can't believe you beat me to it! I saw this this morning and thought "I'll have to put that in the Mac Vs PC topic!". Here's the screenshot I saw:

http://virtual-life.net/img/getimg/Picture_15.png
It's basically the icon it uses to represent a non-mac computer on a network :lol:

[Robert]

Yeah, I saw that quite a while ago (very humorous).

The point I was trying to make about the screen saver is not that Mac's can do superior screen savers (which they do), but, looking at it in the broader sense; I was only using a screen saver as an example. The effects used by the screen saver can also be applied to other applications, such as image editing applications and games. I just used a screen saver as an example!

Robert

[Morgan]

Well leopard was released yesterday, I was at our local shopping mall (Meadowhall) and the Apple Shop had a queue and security on the door only letting people in as others left. By the look of it they were all buying Leopard aswell, now I can't remember seeing anything like that for Vista. :P

[Mark]

I rang up TNT this morning to track my Leopard order (the online tracking results made no sense to me) and it should be delivered on Monday :D! Just a shame that my iMac isnt expected until 2nd November now :(. A lot of initial feedback shows that Leopard appears to run much faster than Tiger, which is great! I can't wait!

[Robert]

Yes...I, for one, welcome our new Leopard overlords.

[Mark]

You've confused me Rob, Leopard overlords?

[Brad]

I'm told the speed of spotlight has increased twofold. I look forward to having a play with that tomorrow :D

[@lun]

Seems the blue screen of death isn't exclusive to Windows anymore: Link (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9044378&source=rss_news50)

Bad Karma for the Mac Windows icon I reckon.
Oh the Irony :P

[Robert]

Yes, I saw that...but that is only because one has "Application Enhancer", a program which...enhances applications with plugins, I did have it, but it was a bit slow and the plugins didn't work very well...

It did do some cool stuff though...

Leopard overlords?
Google... (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22I%20for%20one%20welcome%20our%20new%20 *%20overlords%22)

Robert

[Pigswillfly]

Rob, i have on frequent occasions been able to make my dad's ibook freeze doing the most simple things like trying to log off, how would you think that could happen, because since there isn't a power switch and the restart button wasn't working how would you sort that out on an ibook?

Pigs

[@lun]

Pull out the battery :P

[Robert]

No idea, though Ash seemed to once have this problem - it appeared to all get fixed after reinstalling Mac on it...

Robert

[Pigswillfly]

Best suggestion in the world @lun, except... don't buy a mac, or only buy desktop computers :P

Pigs

[Brad]

Got leopard on my mac, it's *awesome*. Absolutely great.

[Robert]

I'm going to have to wait for a while! Though I did watch the Guided Tour, and it made me want it more and more...

[iBeech]

iMacs - Had one, great machines- but not being able to upgrade a desktop sucks ass - price is ok!

MacBook Pro - Still have one, best machine i've ever had, run Windows Vista and Leopard on it. Windows Vista as my primary OS as i code in Visual Studio 2008 - price is for computer nerds

MacBook - OK laptop, people who want that performance can pay significantly less from Dell - price is for rich people who dont know what they're doing

Windows Vista - Great operating system, most used, great GUI, great support apps

OS X (Leopard) - Again, great OS, but lacks all the things i do on a PC

Gaming - if you want to game, use an Xbox 360. Gaming on PCs is for people who have 2 much money

Spyware / Virus - just install good anti virus software and Windows Vista does the rest! Simple. Mac will get loads of virus's if and when they take a larger chunk of the market.

[@lun]

Gaming - if you want to game, use an Xbox 360. Gaming on PCs is for people who have 2 much money

Nah not really, I'm a tight git and I mainly use my PC for games because I still haven't got round to saving up for a 360 yet :P

And even then I'd probably use my PC more since the games are usually cheaper, and with Steam I can access them anywhere, so no need to worry about scratching or loosing the discs :)

[iBeech]

Nah not really, I'm a tight git and I mainly use my PC for games because I still haven't got round to saving up for a 360 yet :P

And even then I'd probably use my PC more since the games are usually cheaper, and with Steam I can access them anywhere, so no need to worry about scratching or loosing the discs :)

Unless you keep your PC components uptodate, you're never going to be able to get the same quality as through the much cheaper xbox 360 =)

If you buy games off steam, you cannot trade them in for new games :O!

[@lun]

Unless you keep your PC components uptodate, you're never going to be able to get the same quality as through the much cheaper xbox 360 =)

True, but the graphics on the 360 will only look better than the PC if you have a HD telly, which I don't have (yet).

If you buy games off steam, you cannot trade them in for new games :O!

Yeah but the games on Steam are quality so you don't need to :P and, as I mentioned, usually cheaper :)

[Mark]

Windows Vista - Great opearting system, most used, great GUI, great support apps.
I can't (http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?newsid=9571) agree (http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/17992/?a=f) with (http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gadgets/0,39029552,49293700-10,00.htm) that (http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Home_Office/Software/X7A2X9G4)...

[@lun]

I can't (http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?newsid=9571) agree (http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/17992/?a=f) with (http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gadgets/0,39029552,49293700-10,00.htm) that (http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Home_Office/Software/X7A2X9G4)...
Just wondering, have you ever used Vista Mark? All your arguments seem to be related to reviews :P

Though I still prefer to use XP over Vista, at least until SP1 comes out and fixes a few of the bugs :)

[Mark]

Just wondering, have you ever used Vista Mark?
I have yes, for about two months. I finally gave up and downgraded to XP so that I could play my favourite games :). It's too gimmicky in my opinion and can make doing what you want to do a longer process than it ought to be.

[Brad]

Spyware / Virus - just install good anti virus software and Windows Vista does the rest! Simple. Mac will get loads of virus's if and when they take a larger chunk of the market.

While that's partly true, Mac has a UNIX foundation which could rape Windows security any day. *nix systems are by far the most secure on the market.

[Robert Trollslayer]

Except every single independent security company who has checked never says that. They're all shocked at how Mac never gets attacked. Then again, the point of the hacking community is to see how many people they can affect. Seeing as Mac has such a small market share, this is counter-intuitive.

[Mark]

The fact that Windows didn't scrap SP3 for XP after the release of Vista shows that they can't afford to abandon XP users. They know it's what an awful lot of people want to stick with.

As far as I'm concerned, the battle between Vista and OS X can end with the price comparison...

Vista Ultimate (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-Windows-Vista-Ultimate-PC/dp/B000KCIA5A/ref=pd_bbs_sr_10?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1196770975&sr=8-10): £324.48
OS X Leopard (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mac-OS-X-Leopard-1-User/dp/B000FK88JK/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1196771035&sr=8-1): £79.98

I personally think OS X is a better operating system and certainly one which has improved my productivity and allows me to be much more organised. It allows me to enjoy using my computer and multi task without headaches. Spaces and Quicklook are things I can't imagine not having at my disposal now. Even if you don't feel the same, surly the £244.50 price difference is enough to tell you something.

[@lun]

When have you ever bought a computer without a OS? Also Apple make their money back off their hardware, also most people who have Vista have the Home Premium edition, not Ultimate, which is £62 (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/123052) (Cheaper than Leopard and supports more hardware). I also found Vista Ultimate for £108 (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/123060), alot less than £324, which I agree is a stupid price for just an OS, I could by a PC with Vista already installed on it for that price, you just need to shop around :)

Also if you think about it Microsoft have a harder job than Apple because they have to build for pretty much every hardware configuration possible (which numbers in the thousands), Apple only have to worry about 10 different configurations when they are developing a new release or update. So give them some credit, Apple at the end of the day get it so much easier.

[Mark]

Apple at the end of the day get it so much easier.
Apple manufacture their own computers, their own phones, their own music players, their own displays and things such as Apple TV, Airport Extreme, etc. They also develop an operating system, office suite (iWork) and life suite (iLife). This isn't mentioning iTunes, Safari, the fact that they own the worlds biggest online music store... I'm just scratching the surface.

Microsoft on the other hand are a software company and only have to worry about programming software (with the exception of xBox and Zune). Also, manufactures provide the drivers for Operating Systems, not Microsoft - Windows support more because manufacturers know most people use Windows.

most people who have Vista have the Home Premium edition
You have to compare both packages with all their features. Leopard only has one edition with everything in, so it's fair to compare it to Microsoft's fully featured version too.

When have you ever bought a computer without a OS?
I haven't, but I've built machines and they have no OS (obviously). The OS probably wouldn't be Vista Ultimate anyway...

[@lun]

They also develop an operating system, office suite (iWork) and life suite (iLife). This isn't mentioning iTunes, Safari, the fact that they own the worlds biggest online music store... I'm just scratching the surface.

Ok what else is there? :P And you can't say Quicktime, that's comes with iTunes :amused:

Microsoft develop Microsoft Office, and it kicks the crap out of iWorks, even at my college the first thing the technicians do with new iMacs is install MS Office. Microsoft even develop a server edition of Windows, which everyone seems to agree trumps the Apple Server (though Linux pretty much dominates them both).

Microsoft also develop their own games, and they DO develop their own hardware, I'm using a Microsoft Keyboard right now, they've also developed the Xbox and Xbox 360 and Xbox Live is the largest online gaming network in the world. They even developed Windows Mobile, just for use on smart phones, they've also got Hotmail - free email, Windows Spaces - social networking, Live Search - search engine, Windows Live Messenger - one of the most used IM clients ever, second to only that of AOL, Apple doesn't even have an equivalent for these, yes there are Mac compatible versions available, but they're developed by Microsoft, not Apple.

Also Apple aren't a fully fledged hardware company either, alot of the components inside a Mac are made by other companies, I mean think about it, they haven't got the resources to create and entire range of motherboards or RAM modules for every "Mac" they release, their processors are created by Intel and, if I remember right, the TFT screen inside an iMac is created by LG, Apple usually just stick it all together, and develop the casing and packaging for it, they would probably go bust if they tried to develop all the components for it on their own.

[Mark]

Ok what else is there? :P And you can't say Quicktime, that's comes with iTunes :amused:
Well, I've not mentioned the software applications developed specifically for the iPhone, iPods, AppleTV etc. (Such as SMS, Mail, Phone, Photos, Videos) etc. If you're talking big software packages though, look no further than Final Cut Pro, Motion, Soundtrack Pro, Color, Compressor, DVD Studio Pro...

Microsoft develop Microsoft Office, and it kicks the crap out of iWorks, even at my college the first thing the technicians do with new iMacs is install MS Office.
Agreed, but iWork isn't an office clone, and it doesn't attempt to be Microsoft Office either. It's a fantastic value package (£45) which includes a word processor, spreadsheet application and presentation application. It takes a different approach than office (especially with numbers) which I admire - they've created their own "work suite" which is excellent value and can still be shared in Microsoft formats.

Microsoft even develop a server edition of Windows, which everyone seems to agree trumps the Apple Server (though Linux pretty much dominates them both).
I think a software company, which is miles bigger than Apple at present, should make a "better" server solution. Apple are pretty new to the Server game, but their product offers simplicity. If you're going to be using macs in your small business office, Apple's server software offers something anyone who can use a mac could configure. It's extremely simple. It's not necessarily aimed at the same audience as MS Server is, although that doesn't mean it cant handle such intense implementations.

Also Apple aren't a fully fledged hardware company either, alot of the components inside a Mac are made by other companies.
I'm not trying to say Apple make everything themselves. Perhaps a better phrase would be to say that they design and assemble their own products, there are hardly any products available today (electronic at least) which use parts solely manufactured by one company. It just doesn't happen.

[@lun]

Anyone else seen the MacBook Air? http://www.apple.com/macbookair/guidedtour/

http://ridehost.com/uploads/thumb_macbookair2.jpg (http://ridehost.com/show_image.php?file=macbookair2.jpg)

Spec (from Gizmodo):
• .16 to .75-inch thickness on top
• 12.8 x 8.94 inches
• 3 pounds
• 5 hours of battery life with everything running
• Intel Core 2 Duo Processor at 1.6 or 1.8GHz, motherboard the length of a pencil.
• 800MHz frontside bus.
• 2GB RAM 667MHz DDR2 standard.
• 13.3-inch screen, LED backlit.
• 1,280 x 800 pixels
• Micro-DVI adapter (for DVI, VGA, composite and S-Video output)
• Intel GMA X3100 Graphics processor with 144MB RAM shared
• 1.8-inch 80GB HD or 64GB Solid State Drive (no moving pieces, but for a stunning $3,100 price increase (http://gizmodo.com/345101/adding-a-64gb-ssd-to-the-macbook-air-1300-extra-please)!)
• Multitouch trackpad with gestures. Pans, zooms, rotates, etc.
• 802.11n and Bluetooth 2.1.
• Optional external HD for $99, USB-bus powered.
• Full backlit keyboard.
• One USB 2.0, one audio port, one Micro-DVI

.75 inch at it's thickest .16 at the thinnest, I think the war to create the thinnest laptop is just getting stupid, however if I had $1799 to spend (or you could say waste) on a laptop, I would buy it, just because it looks awesome. :)

[Mark]

My entire afternoon has been consumed with the long awaited MacWorld Keynote! Was glad to hear the MacBook Air rumours were true and I really think it's a gorgeous machine! The only problem is the price, £1,199 in the UK!

You only have to compare it to the competition (http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=8198552921644507782&parentCategoryId=16154) though to see it's really a bargain!

The downsides are of course the lack of a replaceable battery and the fact that the RAM is attached to the motherboard. But I mean hey, the motherboard is as long as a pencil and the processor is 60% smaller than a normal Core 2 Duo processor.

I think they've done incredibly well to pack in what they have and achieve what they have and still pitch it at a price much below Sony's. The multi-touch trackpad and virtual CD drives are nice too :)

Final verdict: I want one :D

[Moley89]

Glorified coaster that would break within 6 months.

[@lun]

Final verdict: I want one :D

I don't want one if I have to pay that much for it :)

It's seems like the iPhone, it looks great, works great, but the price isn't that comparable because anything with a similar spec is cheaper because it's not able to fit in a envelope :amused:

Also some of the VAIO's you posted have solid state drives, Apple is charging $3,100 price increase, Sony does not.

[Mark]

Also some of the VAIO's you posted have solid state drives, Apple is charging $3,100 price increase, Sony does not.
Some. If we look at their cheapest, at $2,099, let's compare. First I'll post Sony's spec, then Apple's:

$2,099 : $1,799
11.1" Display : 13.3" Display
1.06Ghz Core 2 Duo : 1.6Ghz Core 2 Duo
1GB Memory (max 2GB) : 2GB Memory (max 2GB)
100GB HDD : 80GB HDD - Neither with a Solid State Drive!

Oh, and the MacBook Air is twice as thin. I'm not saying I love everything about the MacBook Air, but look at the facts and look what they've done - it's good! I think I'll wait for version 2 with a replaceable battery and upgradable RAM - but I still want one :)

[@lun]

Just to add I made a typo, the solid state drive addon is $1,300 NOT $3,100 :P

[Mark]

At the end of the day solid state drives are for majorly rich people as a novelty. If you compare the specs to Sony's cheapest offering as I just have (I'll post again below seeing as we're onto a new page), you’ll see just what a good value laptop it actually is, for what it is!
<o:p> </o:p>
First I'll post Sony's spec, then Apple's:

$2,099 : $1,799
11.1" Display : 13.3" Display
1.06Ghz Core 2 Duo : 1.6Ghz Core 2 Duo
1GB Memory (max 2GB) : 2GB Memory (max 2GB)
100GB HDD : 80GB HDD - Neither with a <st1:street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">Solid State Drive</st1:address></st1:street>! <o:p> </o:p>
:) ::Goes to clean computer screen.::

[Morgan]

It not only markets itself to the "novelty" market, but I think it would be extreamly enticing for people who travel a lot and need a laptop. If Macs were more popular, I'd dare say that this would be a huge success, I mean if you had a choice of lugging about a normal sized laptop or have this which, I dare say could fit into a briefcase fairly easily.

[Mark]

Exactly, you can't compare it to a normal MacBook and say "oh well the specs aren't as good and it's more expensive". It is novelty, it is portable, it's the worlds thinnest laptop! You can carry it around in an envelope if you wish :P

Apple now has it's foot in another door, and is yet again leading the way. iPods were ground breaking music players, the iPhone was a ground breaking phone and this... is a ground breaking laptop - it's the way things are heading.

[@lun]

and this... is a ground breaking laptop - it's the way things are heading.

Sorry, but it's not, he's just made it thinner than any other laptop, making things smaller is not innovation.

[Mark]

Sorry, but it's not
Let's define Innovation: "The creation or introduction of something new, especially a new product or a new way of producing something."

You can't just "make it smaller". They innovated, they invented a new way to use CD drives from other computers, they worked with Intel to produce CPUs 60% smaller, they used more environmentally friendly materials for the first time... Thinking it's easy to make something smaller like that, is a misconception.

[@lun]

Exactly Intel produced them, not Apple, and I doubt Apple contributed much towards creating them, so there is nothing new about it anything in the MacBook Air apart from the size of it's components, so the only innovation they can claim is that everything is smaller, which other companies are probably truly responsible for, not Apple.

[Mark]

Exactly Intel produced them
Hang on, I didn't just give the smaller processor argument. Do you have no response to my other points: "they invented a new way to use CD drives from other computers" and "they used more environmentally friendly materials for the first time".

[@lun]

they invented a new way to use CD drives from other computers

New? I've been doing that at home for years with Windows, just right click your CD or DVD drive and click "Sharing and Security" and you can access it anywhere on your network

they used more environmentally friendly materials for the first time
Are we still talking about innovation here? Because that is nothing new and alot of companies started doing this years ago.

[Robert]

Before I go into the MacBook Air:
Microsoft develop Microsoft Office, and it kicks the crap out of iWorks, even at my college the first thing the technicians do with new iMacs is install MS Office.Agreed, but iWork isn't an office clone, and it doesn't attempt to be Microsoft Office either. It's a fantastic value package (£45) which includes a word processor, spreadsheet application and presentation application. It takes a different approach than office (especially with numbers) which I admire - they've created their own "work suite" which is excellent value and can still be shared in Microsoft formats.
Actually - there's not much that Office can do that iWork cannot. Other than Access and Outlook in Office, there is only (really) Word, PowerPoint and Excel. Word is the biggest negative remembering my ICT lessons - not only did it crash and I loose all my work when the disk was low on space...but it was overall very buggy, and often whilst doing some advanced text editing, it does not do what you expect. Pages is as solid as a rock - the interface is fantastic, and everything works as you would expect. Some of the advanced features are a little hard to find, but as far as I'm aware, it does everything Word can do, and a little bit more. PowerPoint compared to Keynote is incredibly slow and painful - and it's effects look terrible. I liked Excel though, and haven't really used Numbers enough to draw many comparisons - though Numbers has loaded all the .xls files I've given it, including my advanced formulae. Numbers does contain features like being able to arrange different sheets on a single page, which is cool, and I also like the checkbox in a cell feature.

The MacBook Air
Okay, so I was reading the live Keynote from Mac Rumors (http://macrumorslive.com/) with great interest - unfortunately, I had to go half way through - but I watched it all when the video feed came about - and I learned about the MacBook Air! It's very thin which I feel to be very desirable, it has some nice materials used to make it look good. Did I mention it was thin? It doesn't have an optical drive - I don't care - I never use one, but in case I did, its wireless disk mode sounds perfectly suited for the job. Plus, I'm glad they extended the backlit keyboard to it. Do you know how long Macs have had backlit keyboards in PowerBooks and MacBook Pros? How long have PCs had it - I think an AlienWare notebook has had it for a few weeks - something like £3k. My only gripes with the notebook is that it's got no audio in - I don't use it very often on my PowerBook - but when I do, it's darn useful. And to a lesser extent the FireWire (though most FireWire devices appear to have a USB connection anyway - not really a problem). Plus I would like to see a 2.2GHz processor appear on there - even if it is a lot to ask. And my last gripe is the mono-speaker, that also apparently sounds "...a little funny." Though, if these issues were fixed, I would snap one up!
Sorry, but it's not, he's just made it thinner than any other laptop, making things smaller is not innovation.
Making things smaller most certainly is innovation! At least to this degree. Even if it wasn't, it's still most desirable. Also, don't forget, Intel would not have produced them if Apple had not worked with them to make it - these are unique processors that only appear in MacBook Airs! And don't forget the multi-touch trackpad. My PowerBook has been able to scroll with two fingers - and so have all Mac portables since then. This is way better than what most PC's do (scroll on the side) - plus it allows for horizontal scrolling with ease. Now, the MacBook Air has improved upon this with many new gestures and support for more simultaneous fingers. They have magnetic power adapters - which other PC manufacturers have not yet implemented, a micro-DVI port which supports DVI, VGA, Composite and S-Video (not many PC's support all of those - Mac's have supported all since DVI came out) - and also all the other things I can't think about. It is very clear that, the MacBook Air, along with its siblings, are ahead of the game - and always have been.

New? I've been doing that at home for years with Windows, just right click your CD or DVD drive and click "Sharing and Security" and you can access it anywhere on your network
While you are correct, and this will technically work, you will not get all the benefits of having a local disk this way. One of the main benefits of Remote Disk is that you can boot up the MacBook Air onto it. A network boot will allow you to do this on Windows (and Macs) - though I've never successfully been able to perform one - it is after all for none-techies. Edit: Oh yeah, network boots don't work over wireless anyway, so there you go.

Robert

[Mark]

New? I've been doing that at home for years with Windows, just right click your CD or DVD drive and click "Sharing and Security" and you can access it anywhere on your network
That much is true. I've also been doing that for a long time with the mini size CDs that don't fit into my dads laptop but can be accessed from another PC. But... it allows you to read Mac CDs from PCs... If you put a Mac CD into a PC it isn't recognised properly... but with their software, it works with your mac perfectly.

[Morgan]

simultaneous fingers

:lol: I'm sorry, I'm now ashamed of myself :fear:

[@lun]

That much is true. I've also been doing that for a long time with the mini size CDs that don't fit into my dads laptop but can be accessed from another PC. But... it allows you to read Mac CDs from PCs... If you put a Mac CD into a PC it isn't recognised properly... but with their software, it works with your mac perfectly.

For most people who use Windows, I doubt it's a common problem, and if it is, there is software that allows you to read Mac discs on a PC, and it's probably easier to install than the actual MacBook Air software.

[Mark]

and it's probably easier to install than the actual MacBook Air software.
That is totally unfounded. I don't think it would be, based on my experience in installing Bonjor for windows and adding the printer connected to my mac - it was done in 3 clicks!

[@lun]

That is totally unfounded. I don't think it would be, based on my experience in installing Bonjor for windows and adding the printer connected to my mac - it was done in 3 clicks!

I installed the drivers to run Mac Discs on my old PC about a year ago, it was literally one click, once the installer was open it did everything in about 5 seconds, I only needed them to read the one disc (I burnt a disc using the iMac's in college), and if I remeber correctly it didn't even need a restart.

[Robert]

Where did you find the drivers from? I've been looking everywhere, only finding a program called MacDisk and one called MacDrive - one was a driver and the other required you to use its own program, but both weren't free. Also, don't forget it's bootable.

Robert

[@lun]

only finding a program called MacDisk and one called MacDrive

One of them I think, my mate from college gave it to me, it was Mac-something :P

I've never really had the need for it since, so I've never looked it up (as to whether it costs or anything).

[Aaron]

hold up a moment guys. Has anybody taken a minute to think about how stupid an idea it is not to have a cd/DVD drive in the MacBook air?

How would you reformat the bloody thing? With your harddrive erased and no disc drive to boot from... Basically your ****ed.

Just another novelty product from Apple.

Aaron 8-)

[Mark]

hold up a moment guys. Has anybody taken a minute to think about how stupid an idea it is not to have a cd/DVD drive in the MacBook air.
One day CD drives won't appear on any laptop, or computer for that matter! Apple are ahead of the game ;) - This is a wireless device.

[@lun]

Apple are ahead of the game ;) - This is a wireless device.

No Sony were ahead of the game, the Sony Vaio TZ is almost as thin, has no optical drive and came out BEFORE the MacBook Air.

Asus also brought out the EEE pc before the MacBook Air, having no optical drive really isn't that new, it's just not that common yet.

[Robert]

Perhaps Apple was not the first to drop the optical drive, but it was the first to make the thinnest and the fastest ultra-thin notebook. Besides, the only reason the Eee PC doesn't have an optical disk is because of it's low price and therefore low production cost - it would have an optical drive otherwise. My PowerBook has an optical drive, but it's around 5mm thinner than (some of) the Eee PCs.

hold up a moment guys. Has anybody taken a minute to think about how stupid an idea it is not to have a cd/DVD drive in the MacBook air?

How would you reformat the bloody thing? With your harddrive erased and no disc drive to boot from... Basically your ****ed.

Just another novelty product from Apple.
As stated several times, that is what the remote disk is for. In the unlikely event of having neither an external optical drive or a computer, then, yes, you wouldn't be able to format it, but this is extremely unlikely. You've got to remember that this computer is not designed to be a replacement to every computer in a household - is designed to be a high performance, but extremely small computer for people who travel a lot. It could, actually, very well be someone's main PC; I'm sure there are many people who would be very happy with this computer. But, before I would get one, I'd like to see it have audio-in, Firewire and a larger monitor output that it's currently got (though 1920 x 1280 would probably be enough). Aaron, I would like you to point to a PC with similar specs (I'm not even asking for a lower price - because they simply don't exist!)

Robert

[Mark]

No Sony were ahead of the game, the Sony Vaio TZ is almost as thin, has no optical drive and came out BEFORE the MacBook Air.

Asus also brought out the EEE pc before the MacBook Air, having no optical drive really isn't that new, it's just not that common yet.
Fair point. Only, I was defending the MacBook Air from comments against having an optical drive. If you don't think that's an issue, it doesn't matter anyway.

[xxMallowBreastsxx]

Don't get viruse's.
Dont get slow once you have had it for a bit.
Smoother operation.
Better programs as standard.
Dont Crash or Blue Screen.

I would have voted for mac for these reasons but pc seems to have a lot more going for it and i'm sure someone will create a virus for the mac soon that works.:mellow:

[Mark]

I would have voted for mac for these reasons but pc seems to have a lot more going for it
What would you say these are? I don't think there's as many as people think, a lot of misconceptions float around :P

[@lun]

What would you say these are? I don't think there's as many as people think, a lot of misconceptions float around :P

And not all the misconceptions are about Windows either, though those are the ones Apple tend to use in their advertising :)

[Morgan]

It's fair to say that to the majority of the general public, buying a PC means, buying a PC with Windows installed on it. Apple are right to directly target the flaws of Windows as OSX is one of their biggest assets, and that's again what the general public see when they buy a Mac.

[Mark]

Apple are right to directly target the flaws of Windows as OSX is one of their biggest assetsCouldn't agree more. It's fantastic marketing. The get a mac adverts are not only really funny, but they actually portray the PC as a likeable character. It's clever. This is one of the latest, very amusing :lol:...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtoGtvlwvF4

[@lun]

I have to be honest that one's quite good :P

[ex-vally staff]

100% mac is better than pc i had a ibook till my partner stood on it and i never had a problem with it. Since my ibook was destroyed my partner went out and brought me a laptop with vista on it to make up for it. It has been off for repair twice i have had to reformat it 3-5 times and it just keeps crashing and freezing. So i went on ebay the other day and got a ibook g4 with os X 10.4.11 for £185.00 less than half the price of the laptop and i love it. So in my eyes there is only one winner and that is mac.

[Aaron]

Here we go again... :P

Aaron 8-)

[@lun]

It has been off for repair twice i have had to reformat it 3-5 times and it just keeps crashing and freezing.

I have had the same experience with iMacs, so it isn't really the best argument (though Vista is far from perfect).

[ex-vally staff]

The wifi on my laptop stoped working nothing wrong with it but now it wont work at all with wifi. I think microsoft should be shutdown and every one given mac's to say sorry for having to put up with windows for so ******* long.

[Georgie]

i hate mac's they're rubbish

[redratpete]

The voting is still pretty tight in this. I just hope the people that have voted PC have actually tried a mac first before passing judgement.

[@lun]

The voting is still pretty tight in this. I just hope the people that have voted PC have actually tried a mac first before passing judgement.

Yeah, I'm using one now :P